Sunday, June 25, 2006

Is it inherent that gays don't pray?

I got a message from my mother the other day about an issue in our family that started out “If you still pray…” It got me started thinking. Do most Christians inherently think that because someone is gay, they have no connection to God? I’m sure my mother didn’t mean it in the way it sounded… she was frustrated with a situation and was leaving a quick message. But it still got me thinking about gays and prayer.

The irony of the answer to the question is that I pray a lot more now than I did when I was regularly attending church, living at home and surrounded by Christian love. I think that being out on my own, recognizing that the church I grew up in wants nothing to do with me, has made me seek my own closer connection to God.

I hear a lot of people say that spirituality doesn’t have to involve a building or a structured set of beliefs and rules. That sprituality is a personal relationship with a higher being, which most call God. I think that for some, the structured beliefs and rules make it easier to ‘keep the faith’ so to speak. When you walk out of that, or are thrust out (or simply don’t feel welcome anymore) it’s up to you and you alone to set your beliefs and maintain your connection to God. And that’s harder than anyone gives us credit for.



Anonymous said...

mmm. well i dont have any knowledge on this.
but i am a christian, and i am straight, and i dont know any gay christians or even gay people, but i just wanna say that i am proud that all you ppl are still christians, cos i imagine there would be alot of pressure etc on you not to be.
whatever, what im saying is that you have my support and encouragement.

Anonymous said...

If you abhor hate in all forms…what you claim on your cover page…why declare hate in your signs and your web address?

Our web address is We do have some other domains that we own which direct to this site, and some of those use the word hate, but they’re just a means to get here - which is clearly not about hate. -Ed.

Anonymous said...

I found this site cos I was looking for a domain ‘thereIsNoGod’.

I was looking for thatafter reading how someone was desprate for buddhist teachings in Turkey (eg Istanbul is a city of 15 million). But even tho Turkey straddles East and West in a unique way, it also home to Chechen terrorist. It is a place where you get spammed by Islamic extremist that accuse you or worshiping idols (if they only knew) and that you will go to hell.

Is this the same hell that the Baptists ( are sure everyone but them is going to?

There are no cournties that touch turkey where you can get buddhist teaching and if you have a venue in Turkey it would be a bomb magnet.
As a gay person, I rejected the church because it had nothing to do with god. In fact you see that Man shaps god in his own vile image. Therefore you can do anything in his name.

Once this occurs to you it comes clear that there is no god.

This is seprate from a spritual life and a deeper connection to your spritual self.

This is something that gays are well qualifed to do as ‘the church’ was not the easy path that it is to hetties.

So as a buddhist I do pray a lot, I meditate a lot, my spritual development is all consuming, and it is a path to happiness.

When I die I will know what the after life is really like until then there is no text that is proof - so any path would do. I guess it could be that I would choose any religion as long as it was not based on the history in palistine or whatever. But in the end the right ‘religion’ chooses you - even if it is worshiping money, bodies or the unseen.

Anonymous said...

Hey guys (and girls),

I am a straight, Christian male. I go to eastern university, studying to be a missionary and one of the big movements on our campus was when a group known as “SoulForce” (maybe you have heard of them?) visited. They are a group of homosexual Christians, and last year they toured a whole bunch of Christian schools, challenging them on their views on homosexuality. They read letters from gay students and told some moving stories about gay kids/young adults who were either murdered or committed suicde–martyred for their cause, i would say.

At any rate, i have done an awful lot of thinking on this subject–and how I, as a Christian, should view homosexuality. See, the thing is–there are many passages in the bible that are twisted to speak against homosexuality–the passage about sodom and gomorrha being one of hte most prominent. Indeed, many scholars believe that the sin of those cities was hospitality–not sodomy.

So i have found my heart seriously wrenched on the subject, as i am called to love but at the same time i am called to stand firm on the truth. Well, where was the truth? The Bible seems to be very unclear on this subject–in fact, there are merely 7 (i think?) verses in the bible actually regarding homosexuality. Now that does not seem like a lot.

But here’s the thing–there are 7 verses regarding homosexuality, and all of them are against homosexuality. There is really no doubt about that. So why then is there so much controversy even amongst Christians over this?

I think the problem lies in our culture–it seems that homosexuals, at least in America, have now come to be identified by their sexuality. I guess ask yourself (if you are gay) if, when someone asks you about yourself–is one of the first things you feel the need to make known is your sexuality? Surely, you are not merely a “gay or straight” you are John, or Mary–or Jake, you have talents and hobbies, you floss every night (or you dont) etc…

So naturally, when someone attacks your identity–you feel the need to defend it. So i think the focus is wrong. I believe that homosexuality is a sin.

Now granted, we are all sinners–and homosexuals are no different. The problem is, when Christians deny their sin, it becomes a huge problem to the Church and to others. Now does this mean that God doesnt love homosexuals? I certainly think and sincerely hope not.

But if you are seriously concerned about your own relationship with God, you should be always asking yourself (i know i do) whether or not the way you live is pleasing to God. And you must consider the possibility that you are not living a life pleasing to the Lord.

FB–you wrote in regards to Leviticus, the uncleanliness of menstruating women–and then how Jesus healed that woman in Matthew. Indeed it is so! God loves homosexuals–He loves all sinners! That’s why he healed that woman–and i think He wants the same for homosexuals.

I am not saying that homosexual Christians are not Christians–nor am i saying that they do not love God. But surely, when we really love God–doesnt He ask us to give sacrifice for Him? To sacrifice what we once were (and often times are) for Him?

It is detrimental for any Christian to deny or justify their sin. I am certain, that if i did the research–and looked at the original Greek–i could use the Bible to very clearly justify having premarital sex. But we cannot use the Bible in such ways.

Of course we want to justify our sin–we like sin, and we dont want to feel bad about who we are or the things we want either. It is second nature to want to justify it and to find ways to allow it. But we have to be realistic. Surely God loves us just the way we are. But do we love God enough to leave ourselves?

What do you guys think?

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to say hi and nice job on your website.

Anonymous said...

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 1: 24 - 27,32

Not my words, God’s. Please, turn to Him, now, in repentance, or I fear you will spend eternity in hell.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I just came across your blog and I think it’s simply AMAZING. I love what you have to say.

Eventhough I can’t perfectly relate (cause of my predisposition toward heterosexuality), I feel like your message specifically within your post needs to be heard and needs to resound in the ears of more people, especially with some Christian groups; I don’t care to be specific or to generalize. Have you ever thought about public speaking and dedicating yourself to this message?

Anonymous said...

i cant believe you’d do something so incredibly blunt and… well to be honest, horrible as to protest at soldier’s funerals. can’t you understand the grief that you’ll be putting their relatives through?

i’m not homophobic by any means, but the idea of protesting at FUNERALS simply makes me sick to my core.

i’m pretty sure you’ll delete this post, but i’d have somewhat more respect for you if you didn’t… free speech and all that!

I continue to be amazed at how people confuse this site, which helps expose the hatred of the Phelps clan, with their actual site. Again, we don’t protest. We don’t preach hate. We just point out those who do. -ed.

Anonymous said...

If God speaks to you…he does. I feel him even when I don’t want to. All my life of Christianity..All I could do was condemn…because I condemned myself…I hate everyone and hated any differences in people. I then realized later on condemnation and judgment is just another feeling. It doesn’t mean anything. It shouldn’t hinder your progress. I truthfully am a female and understand what it’s like to be hated for your differences. God wasn’t supposed to be about hate…If a person can’t help it…what then shall they do? Give up on that struggle and find one they can work with…like helping others and loving those you have… That’s the meaning that I get and the most important in fact… I’m tired of these meaningless debates on what is evil and what is not. They’re tiring and don’t build anyone up…Partly why I left church. I had alot of problems being accepted and getting twisted views from certain Christians. I believe if you believe then you can’t be wrong. If you still believe and still love…Some people forget the purpose. I’m tired of Hell this Hell that. It’s so tiring and the more and more it’s focused on…the more and more you can’t focus. What God tells you is what matters.

Anonymous said...

Now they are protesting the Amish girls’ funerals in PA.:( Christ was all about LOVE…not hate.

Anonymous said...

I just want the people to know what these people are doing is wrong…..i live in beaumont i will be at the funeral home showing my support with my bibe in one hand a flag in the other…how can these people live with there selves using someones grief to show thier ignorance

Anonymous said...

Why can’t you stop pretending what you are and admit that you are trying to play god. If someone has gone against god’s will then he will punish them. We are not here to judge. If someone has died then they have already met their judgement. Upsetting the families and loved ones of someone you don’t even know can’t help anything.

Just stop pretending you’re all loving and peaceful. You don’t know why they did what they did and you don’t know what type of people they are. There are very good reasons why god doesn’t want us to judge. I hope you’re ashamed of yourselves.

I think you have the wrong website - we’re not the hatemongers from Westboro Baptist Church. This is Peace. -ed.

Anonymous said...

You should check this out, it’s amazing. It is in reference to the protest in Beaumont, TX and me and some friends went out there to protest the protesters!


It would be nice to blog this one, too.

Anonymous said...

Only weak people are afraid of us fags. ;) Why be so damn judgemental? Homophobic people are missing so much. ;)
Check out my gay music if you want.

Anonymous said...

I was raised in a fundamental Bible church that believes that homosexuality is wrong. I served as piano player, Sunday School teacher and even assistant Pastor for 10 years before being outed as a gay man. I was asked to resign my positions immediately although I was not asked to leave the church. I did, however, leave because it was too hard to remain as just a parishoner. I recently joined a local United Methodist Church and I am so happy to be involved in a church that is accepting. My love for Christ and the teachings of the Bible never wained for a moment although I went through a rather difficult time after leaving the church of my youth. I recently was made aware of the WBC folks and have been incensed since looking at their website. Even though my parents feel that being gay is a sin, they have always treated me and my partner with love and respect. My father, when confronting me about being gay, stated “you’ll never stop being my son and I’ll never stop loving you. You are always welcome in our home.” I thank God every day for parents like that!
In Christ,

Anonymous said...

I say thank those shallow view people because their resistance to what homosexuality has been the perfect vehicle to “out” the whole story.. God or Spirituality does not end at Christianity.


Anonymous said...

In regards to David’s comment…

I think it’s important to consider the opposing views concerning those scriptures.

I’d share that here, but I’m afraid I don’t have the time. I think this is the most scholarly response to those scriptures supporting the “pro-gay” point of view and while you may not find all of them valid, I’d be interested if it challenges your opinion of a few of them:

Anonymous said...

It is true, though, that a lot of queers lose their religion as a result of their treatment at the hands of various religious people.

Anonymous said...

The Phelps team just visited Huntsville,Alabama and were in for a rude awakening when they tried to picket the funeral of a black student accidently killed in a horrible school bus accident this week. Phelps was issued a 45 min. permit for the picket and assigned by the city of Huntsville to a section along the road across from church were the funeral was to be held.

The city then parked 2 huge city buses in front of the Phelps protest, with 2 police cars also in front and back of the school buses. THEY COULD NOT BE SEEN BY THOSE ATTENDING THE FUNERAL!

A support group was also there, with funds being raised by pledges at 10 cents a minute for every minute the Phelps people protested
with over $2,000 in pledges going to the families of the studens killed and to the Aids Action Coalition.

We are thrilled with the
results of the money raised and the fact that Shirley Phelps and her hate group was censured.

Anonymous said...

Those of you who are threatened with
these nutty Plelps people, request the same coverage that took place in Huntsville Alabama on November 24, 2006, if enough of this intervention takes place, the hate mongers will go home and work their own streets.

Leather Jacobs said...

Hi, I just came across your blog and I really appreciate it. I guess I'll label myself, since that's all us Americans seem to do (I'm a liberal heterosexual, atheist and love football and soccer!). I find all religion destructive; both socially, politically and overall used to keep people down and away from power. I can only imagine what pain and discrimination gays have to go through, and I want to let everyone know that I support the ideas of love and respect.

We were not meant to be forced into a set of ancient rules, or believe a ghost hovering above us, telling us when to have sex or who to fantasize about. We are all unique, and our brain separates us from all other lifeforms on this planet.

I'm sure there are plenty of healthy religious people (I went to school in SC, so I have plenty of religious friends myself). Your orientation does not define your heart; even though we love to categorize, truly, we all have something different about us. When I meet someone, I don't care if they look gay, straight, poor, rich...I stick my hand out and I look into their eyes with a smile. That's what we should strive and respect.

Keep up the good work, have a great day everyone.